Kirk session minutes 8 jan 2020

In the absence of the Interim Moderator, the meeting agreed that Mrs Catherine Paterson should be appointed as moderator.

Mrs Paterson opened the meeting with a prayer.

Sederunt:    Present were:  Mrs Catherine Paterson, acting moderator; Mr David Logue, Session Clerk; Ms Ealasaid Mackay, Mrs Norma Kelly, Presbytery Elder; Mrs Louise Logue, Treasurer

Attending:  Mr Russell Anderson, Property Convenor;  Mr Gordon Green, Mrs Arlene Green

Apologies:    Rev Christine Fulcher, Interim Moderator;  Mrs Libby MacDonald, Mrs Catherine MacLennan.

Minutes of meetings of the 18th November 2019:

The minutes of the meeting of the 18th November 2019, which had been previously circulated were approved:  Proposed by Mrs Logue and seconded by Mrs Paterson

Matters arising from the above minutes:

Audio visual equipment:    This equipment installed in Tayvallich Church had been used at the service on Sunday 5th January 2020 for the first time.   Words of one hymn and a short DVD on Alpha were displayed during the service.

This was well received and it was suggested at the meeting that in future the words of all hymns could be displayed, and also the words of the scripture readings. 

Extension at Tayvallich Church:

Mr Logue and Mr Anderson updated the meeting on visits to three Architects.   The architect, Organic Architects of Helensburgh had been asked to draw up some ideas to put forward as a Pre Application to the planning department.    This was displayed on the AV screen for comment.

Questions were raised in relation to:  the roof material of the curved roof, estimated costs, and impact of shadow on neighbouring property.   Mr Logue stated that no discussion had taken place at this time with the owner of the neighbouring property.

It was agreed that Mr Logue would refer the questions back to the architect and informally update the neighbour on the possible building.

Mrs Kelly informed the meeting that Mr Neil, architect and adviser on buildings to the Presbytery was now available to undertake site visits for advice.

Refugio Training:    Mrs Logue reported that invitations to attend the training organised in Tayvallich on the 29th and 30th January had been sent to church leaders across Argyll and that it would also be circulated by the Presbytery Clerk.  

It was agreed that North Knapdale would meet reasonable travel and accommodation costs of the trainers from Greyfriars Kirk.

Winter Gathering:   The craft event and lunch in Achnamara hall in December 2019 had this year been quieter than previous years, with fewer local people attending.    Stall holders reported that they were very quiet.  £500 was raised by the event to be split evenly between the church and the Hall.

Pulpit Supply fees:    Mrs Logue raised the issue of Pulpit Supply fees in relation to those taking only one of the two services on Sundays in the linked Parishes of Glassary, Kilmartin and Ford, and North Knapdale. 

Concern had been raised by one reader over the limit applied under Church of Scotland rules, that those undertaking one service only in a linked charge be paid a fee of 50% of the total fee for two services which is £90.    This results in a fee of £45, rather than the £60 fee where there is no second service.

Following discussions with the Interim Moderator, and the Presbytery Treasurer, Mrs Logue proposed that the “50%” rule should not be applied in North Knapdale, as, where individuals were leading only one service it was not due to their decision, it was because only one service was available as the service at Glassary Kilmartin and Ford was being undertaken by another person.   When worship leaders were taking the services in both Glassary, Kilmartin and Ford, and in North Knapdale then the standard fees for two services of £90 would be applied.  

The proposal was agreed.   It was further agreed to backdate this revised payment to the beginning of the current vacancy.

Cleaning and Flower Rota.

Mrs Green asked if any one had volunteered to clean the Tayvallich Church on a regular basis.   Mr Logue reported that no one had yet come forward but that a further request would be made at the service on Sunday 12th January.    It was agreed that if there was no suitable volunteer, that Mr Logue should approach the current cleaner for the Tayvallich Hall to undertake the cleaning on a commercial basis.

Mrs Kelly volunteered to take on the organisation of the Flower Rota for Tayvallich Church.

Worship and Mission:

Pastoral Care team:   Mrs Paterson reported that she is calling meeting of Pastoral care volunteers following Worship on Sunday 12th January to arrange suitable times and places for training events.

It was agreed that Mrs Paterson should order whatever books and material is required for this training.

Messy Church:   Mrs Logue reported that attendance at the Christmas Party had been disappointing with three families attending, one of which decided to leave early.

Mrs Smith has written to Mrs Logue to say that at the moment she is unable to commit the time for organisation of Messy Church and so will not be available to continue to lead this.    It was agreed that Messy Church would therefore be inactive for the time being.

Mrs Logue stated that she was more concerned at the moment about work with the teenage children in the parish, but was uncertain about what to do about this.   She plans therefore to write to Kenny Wilson, the Presbytery youth worker to discuss this.

Alpha/ Alpha next:   Mr Logue reported that invitations were being circulated for two “taster sessions” with a view to running an Alpha series.    Elders and all members were encouraged to use this as an opportunity to bring friends along to hear about and see the content of Alpha.   This is a good way to introduce friends to the Christian faith over a friendly and sociable meal.

The “Alpha Next” group meets weekly again on Tuesday evenings in Mr and Mrs Logue’s home.   This is time of discussion on aspects of Christian faith, a DVD or teaching topic, and prayer.   All members of the session are warmly invited to come along.

 Second Sunday Supper/Cafe Church.

Mr Logue reported that next Second Sunday supper is on the 12th January and that 17 people had already booked and further invitations would be circulated at Cafe Connect, Skiff Group and Sunday Worship.

Cafe church on the 29th December in Achnamara Hall had been well received with Carol singing.   24 people had attended. 

 Mission Development Plan.

Mr Logue reported that the last meeting of the group had made little progress as Glassary,  Kilmartin and Ford were awaiting a response to their appeal to the Presbytery Moderator.

Mr Logue had attended the meeting as representative from North Knapdale and the Interim Moderator for Glassary Kilmartin and Ford linked with North Knapdale had also attended.    Mr Logue reported that one representative from each Parish and the two Ministers from Lochgilphead and from Ardrishaig linked with South Knapdale had been asked to attend.    Mr Logue proposed that he write to the Presbytery Planning Convenor to suggest that there should be at least two representatives from each parish in the Mission Development Group to provide balanced representation from the congregations.   This was agreed.

 Service plan and Easter Services

Mr Logue circulated a revised Service Plan which includes the Easter week services and a change to the venue for the service on Easter Sunday the 12th April from Bellanoch to Tayvallich. 


Attest rolls

Mr Logue read out the rolls of Members and Adherents for 2019 and these were agreed

 Statistical return

Mr Logue presented the completed Presbytery Statistical Return.   Following discussion some alterations were agreed to the section on “Age range and usual number of worshippers” and these were amended.

 Polling Station 

Tayvallich church was used as a polling station for the general election on the 12th December 2019.    This was arranged by Mr Logue following discussion with the Tayvallich Hall, which had been booked for the Christmas buffet for older people on that day, the organiser of the buffet, and the Argyll and Bute Election Office.

A number of the elders reported that they had received comments from some local residents and also church members that they did not think this an appropriate use of the church building.

Other elders reported favourable comments from residents, church members and also the polling station staff.

The members of session agreed that Mr Logue should not have taken the decision for this use of the church on his own and, prior to agreeing its use as a polling station, should have canvassed the views of the other elders.     If this had been agreed by the session members then they would have been better informed to explain to others the reason for using the church.   Those elders present agreed that , had they been asked, they would have agreed to the church being used for Polling.    Mr Logue apologised for not seeking the views of session on this and agreed that similar decisions on the uses of the church buildings should be taken by the session.  


Interim Moderator – no report

Presbytery  – Mrs Kelly gave a detailed report on matters from the      December Presbytery meeting.   The Prayer breakfast in Lochgilphead had been well attended with representatives from all the local churches, including the recently appointed Roman Catholic priest and the Pastor of the Baptist church.   There was a Presentation on Church and the Community by Cinnamon Trust, and also a focus on the work of the Emergency Services.

Godly Play Training will be organised across the Presbytery.

Argyll Presbytery will be enlarged to include Helensburgh, Luss and Arrochar as West Dumbarton Presbytery is dissolved.

Dunoon parishes are providing an open day on the 11th January to present ideas for their Development Planning, and use of buildings and are also inviting the Presbytery Planning group to attend.

Training in Suicide Awareness is planned for the 16th and 17th, 19th and 20th March 2020.

Congregations are asked to support and pray for the Presbytery Mission Partner, John McCulloch who is working in Palestine.    Prayer letters will be circulated to Parishes.

Tarbert Church has been granted permission by Presbytery to spend approximately £60,000 on new toilets and level access.

Stewardship –  no report 

Safeguarding – nothing to report 

Notifiable events  – no events to be notified

Treasurer and Finance Committee  – no report

Health and Safety:     Mr Anderson reported that he was progressing with the completion of the health and safety toolkits.

It was agreed that he should purchase First Aid Kits, posters and accident books for both church buildings.   It was also agreed that he should progress with the installation of Smoke or heat detectors in both churches and suitable fire doors on the vestries in both churches.

Fabric Report  – no items reported 


Payment of OLMs:   A letter had been received from Craig Renton of the Church of Scotland in relation to payment of OLMs when undertaking a locum appointment.     This was noted.

Youth Work Report – Kenny Wilson

Report on Youth work in South Kintyre from the Presbytery Youth worker, Kenny Wilson, was circulated for information and prayer.

Date of next meeting – the next meeting was set for the 12th February at 7.30pm in       Tayvallich Church..

The meeting was closed by all praying The Grace together.

Kirk session agenda 8 jan 2020


Opening Prayer and Worship

  1. Sederunt
  2. Apologies
  3. Minutes of meetings of the 18th November 2019
  4. Matters arising from the above minutes:
    1. Audio visual equipment.
    2. Extension at Tayvallich
    3. Refugio Training,
    4. Winter Gathering
  5. Worship and Mission:
    1. Pastoral Care team
    2. Messy Church
    3. Alpha/ Alpha next
    4. Second Sunday Supper/Cafe Church.
    5. Mission Development Plan.
    6. Winter Gathering
    7. Service plan and Easter Services
  6. Administration:
    1. Attest roles
    2. Statistical return
    3. Polling Station  
  7. Reports:
    1. Interim Moderator
    2. Presbytery 
    3. Stewardship –  no report 
    4. Safeguarding 
    5. Notifiable events 
    6. Treasurer and Finance Committee  – no report
    7. Health and Safety
    8. Fabric Report  
  8. Correspondence:
    1. Payment of OLMs
  9. Date of next meeting
  10. Close with prayer.

Kisk session minutes 18 nov 2019

The meeting was opened with a reading from Micah, ch.6 v.8 and prayer led by the Interim Moderator, Rev Christine Fulcher

Sederunt:  Rev Christine Fulcher, Interim Moderator; Mr David Logue, Session clerk; Mrs Louise Logue, treasurer; Mrs  Libby MacDonald; Mrs Catherine Paterson.

Attending:   Mrs Catherine MacLennan

Apologies received from Mrs Norma Kelly, Ms Ealasaid Mackay

The minutes of meeting of the 23rd October 2019 were approved.   Proposed by Mrs Logue and seconded by Mrs MacDonald

Matters arising from the above minutes:

Audio visual equipment.    The equipment has been installed but has yet to be fully set up effectively.   Mrs Logue to seek advice on rectifying a problem with the laptop to screen connection.

Extension.   Mr Logue and Mr Russell Anderson had visited two architects and were visiting a third on the 19th November.   These visits are to discuss the services offered and the experience and initial proposals prior to appointing one as the architect for the project.

It was unanimously agreed that travel expenses could be claimed for travel in relation to these visits.

Blythswood Shoebox appeal.   A total of 14 boxes had been delivered from North Knapdale to the Blythswood appeal.

Worship and Mission:

Pastoral Care team:   Mrs Paterson reported that 8 people, all female, had agreed to take part in this.   She is preparing training material to commence in January, 2020, and will also invite relevant speakers as part of the training events.

Messy Church:   The Messy church party is organised for the 3rd December in Kilmartin Church.

Alpha/ Alpha next.   Mrs Logue reported that it was intended that a new Alpha course will be advertised and run from January, 2020.

Refugio.   Mrs Logue and Mrs MacLennan reported that they had attended Refugio, (Christian Meditation), events in Greyfriars Church during the Heartedge Conference and found them helpful and uplifting.    Following encouraging conversations at the “Second Sunday Supper” they intend to introduce this type of meditation to North Knapdale.   In preparation for this, a training event led by the practitioners from Greyfriars will be arranged for January 2020 in the parish.   This will cover two four hour sessions on the 29th and 30th January 2019.   Details would be circulated to neighbouring congregations with an invitation to attend.

Second Sunday Supper/Cafe Church.   The second Sunday supper in Achnamara Hall in November was held as a Quiz Night using the Tearfund Materials.    This was a successful evening raising £409 for Tearfund and 41 people attended.    There will be no Second Sunday Supper in December and this will recommence in January 2020.

Cafe Church will be in Achnamara hall on the 29th December at 4.30pm.    This will have Christmas and New Year themes

Mission Development Plan.   There was a meeting of representatives from the five mid Argyll parishes to discuss the Mission Development Plan on the 5th November 2019.   One representative attended from each parish with Mr Logue attending from North Knapdale.  The purpose of the meeting was to discuss and agree the basis of a Job description for the Mission Development worker proposed for the area.

Prior to discussion on this the representative for Glassary Kilmartin and Ford notified the meeting that they had lodged an appeal to the Moderator of Presbytery against the decision that they could not call a minister to their Parish linked with North Knapdale.   The reason and impact of this was discussed and Mr Logue pointed out that this was a decision by Glassary Kilmartin and Ford and that the congregation of North Knapdale wished to proceed with the Mission plan bringing the five parishes together.

Rev Carruthers also raised some concern that the number of MDS posts available may be limited to 5.67 full time posts and so we may be unable to appoint to this.   He would however seek clarification of this.

Following discussion it was agreed that Rev. Carruthers would inform the Presbytery Planning convenor that Mid Argyll were progressing the Mission Plan and that, pending clarification of the number of the MDS posts and the outcome of the appeal by Glassary Kilmartin and Ford, it was agreed that the parishes would combine with some form of “Team ministry” structure with three full time posts, one, or more likely two, of which would be Ordained Minister posts certainly in the immediate future. The third post would primarily be focussed on “outreach” into the communities.  The next meeting of this group will be on the 2nd December 2019 at 10.30am in Lochgilphead Parish Church hall.

Remembrance service.    This had taken place at Barnluasgan memorial with 21 people attending.   Mr Logue suggested that in future years there could be more advertisement of this event.

 Winter Gathering.     This will be on the 7th December with craft stalls and with soup and sandwich lunch from 11.30am to 2.00pm in      Achnamara Hall.   It is noted that the times given have changed since the entry in the previous Session Minutes.   There will be no Cafe Connect on that date.

 Service plan.   Mr Logue circulated an updated service plan from    December 2019 to April 2020.  It was noted that Rev Fulcher was leading worship on three Sundays over that period and that on February 16th 2020 she would lead a Communion service.


Interim Moderator:   Rev Fulcher reported that she was very pleased to be taking up the role of Interim Moderator for ourselves and Glassary Kilmartin and Ford.    She is currently also providing support as Interim Moderator to Skipness, Tarbert and Kilberry, and to Islay and Jura.

Session Clerk:   Mr Logue reported that he would be away from church   for the following four Sundays. 

Presbytery – no report as there had not been a meeting.

Stewardship –  no report 

Safeguarding  – no report

Notifiable events No Notifiable events have occurred.

Treasurer and Finance Committee:   Mrs Logue raised a query over the rules on the payment of Pulpit Supply within a linked parish when either one or both parishes were covered by the person leading worship.   Following discussion it was agreed that Rev Fulcher would seek advice on the rules and notify Mrs Logue.

Health and Safety:   The session Clerk was asked to notify the Property Convenor that it was required that the Health and Safety audit and risk assessments for the two church building be completed by the end of December 2019.

Fabric;  No issues reported. 


Prayer Breakfast:   Notification had been received of the Presbytery Prayer breakfast on the 3rd December in the Stag Hotel, Lochgilphead at 7.30am.

Culture of invitation Roadshow:   This notification had only just been received by the Session Clerk through the “Mission News”  e-mails.    In view of the short notice no-one could attend from Session but it was hoped that it would be possible to attend any future events.

Date of next meeting   The next meeting will be on the 8th January 2020 at 7.30pm in Tayvallich Church.

The meeting was closed by praying “The Grace” together.